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The Abdominal Training Secrets Interview
With Tom Venuto, NSCA-CPT, CSCS
www.BurnTheFatDiet.com
And David Grisaffi, CHEK, CFT, PN
www.FlattenYourAbs.net
TV: Hi David, thanks for taking the time for this interview because I know
how busy you are and that, among other projects, you run a training studio
in Tacoma, you’re a wrestling coach and you keep a full client load. I’ve
known you for a couple years now through the Internet and the emails we’ve
sent to each other and you’re very well known within the fitness industry -
especially in the sports training field. But on the off chance that some of
the people listening to this interview don’t know who you are, would you
give us a quick introduction and tell us little bit about your background,
how you got started in this field and how you spend your time now?
DG: Well I was always a sports enthusiast my entire life. I can remember I
was the only 9-year-old watching Monday night football and taking stats. I
did all the usual sports - football, soccer, wrestling, swimming, baseball
and tennis. Never did much with basketball. Being a genetically "blessed"
Italian, I didn't think the height requirement was going to be on my side. I
excelled at wrestling. That sport alone taught me about nutrition,
supplements, work ethic etc. I really have to thank wrestling for getting me
into this field. I now coach high school wrestling, baseball and youth
football. I keep really busy with my 3 children, Addision (13) Garrison (10)
and my little man Carson (7). I taught school for a couple of years and then
decided to go into personal training.
TV: You have quite a few certifications, one of them is certified personal
trainer, one is certified golf trainer – or “golf “biomechanic” to be exact
- but what is a “Corrective High Performance Exercise Kinesiologist?
DG: That’s an intense certification program where you learn from one of the
foremost experts in the conditioning field, Paul Chek, who personally
developed and cultivated the program. The certification revolves around the
dynamics of kinesiology, physiology, functional anatomy and mind – body -
spirit relationships. The program has four levels and I’m currently a level
II, where we learn physical assessment, posture analysis, gait analysis,
primal movement patterns, length-tension testing and range of motion
testing. My Golf biomechanic certification is also from the CHEK institute.
This is where we learn how the relationship between muscles and muscle
groups affect the golf swing and how to improve it. In the winter of 2002 I
also became one of the first Nutrition and Lifestyle Coaches from the CHEK
institute. This program was developed to help practitioners deal with
nutritional and lifestyle needs of their clients. The certification teaches
how symptoms of disease and stress can be prevented through diet, exercise
and stress management. I’m currently a level II Nutrition and lifestyle
coach.I can‘t say enough about how Paul has helped me become a better
trainer and person. There is more to this than just exercise.
TV: And I understand that there’s only a small handful of people who have
those credentials, is that right?
DG: Yes, I think, at last count about 1000 have received a CHEK
certification but there are only about 35 in the world with all three
certifications including the level two’s. So it all costs time, energy and
brain work Tom, but for someone who wants something different and out of the
box thinking, it’s great. Not to take away from any other certification
programs; heck, I love the ISSA, Ian King, Charles Poliquin and many others…
TV: That’s impressive, congratulations. So if I understand your philosophy
correctly, the big difference between you and other trainers and especially
trainers who only do bodybuilding and nothing else, is that you help your
clients not only look good, but also with functionality, performance and
correcting existing injuries or potential problem areas or imbalances that
could lead to injuries in the future. Did I miss anything or would you say
that’s a pretty good description?
DG: That’s right…you have to evaluate your client thoroughly for strengths
and weaknesses to get the best results. Sometimes without a good evaluation
you can miss something that could help prevent or fix an injury or cause
someone not to excel.
TV: I think it’s really important what you’re teaching people because as a
bodybuilder myself, when I first started many years ago, the ONLY thing I
cared about was looking good and having muscles and abs and low body fat,
but true fitness is a lot more than just looking good. For one thing it’s
health above all else. In addition to that, if you don’t have strong,
flexible and balanced development, then sooner or later, you’re going to get
injured or you’re going to find that you can’t enjoy the sports or
recreation activities you want to, and ultimately you might even find
yourself restricted from normal daily activities like squatting, bending and
lifting things around the house, which is exactly what happens to most
people when then get older. But still, the fact is, everyone wants to look
good, they want the six pack; they want muscle definition. So how do you
balance the form aspect – the looking good part – with the function aspect –
which is the strength, flexibility, balance and performance part?
DG: I believe we develop from the inside out. If you have good insides, you
will have a good outside. What I mean is that diet, nutrition and water
intake have a great deal to do with how good you look on the outside. So to
look good - the “form” part - I start with overseeing my client’s dietary
intake. I don’t go as far as telling them exactly what to eat, but I give a
lot of suggestions. As for the “function”, I always think of the body as a
whole, not as parts. Yes, if you’re a bodybuilder and that is your gig, then
heck yes, think in parts. This really depends on the client and their goals,
but you always need proper flexibility, strength and balance in the whole
body as a unit.
TV: You train regular people and you also train professional athletes,
especially boxers and golfers. Is there a big difference in how athletes and
regular people should train?
DG: Each of them has distinct differences. So to plop down a “canned
program” for everyone would lead to failure and would reflect poorly on me.
I take each client one at a time. In my Flatten Your Abs e-book, I provide
many different levels so each individual can pick the level that fits them
best when they start out. Everyone is not equal. The boxers in general, are
more athletic, so one big difference is that I change their program more
often to keep them fresh. Let’s say I have 6 weeks before a tough fight, I
may change the workout 3 - 4 times. Their nervous systems are highly
adaptable and need the change. Someone who just wants to start a basic
weight-training program could stay on the same program for the entire 6
weeks and get results. This is because their nervous systems are not as
highly developed.
TV: Lets talk about six pack abs and flat stomachs, because that’s another
one of your specialty areas and that’s what I really wanted to focus on in
this interview the most. You wrote a course on abdominal training- it’s
called FIRM AND FLATTEN YOUR ABS and you’re now offering it as an e-book
download on the Internet and it’s starting to get really popular. What made
you decide to write a book about abdominal training when there’s already so
much information out there?
DG: Hmmm.…to be honest it was my friend Don Lemmon. He invited me to write a
chapter about core conditioning in his book, and I said “sure”. One thing
lead to another and that one chapter developed into an entire e-book of my
own. I had never done an entire book before with editing, pictures and so
on, but I just took a lot of the information I had learned from experience
and from all my mentors, put my head down, went to work and wrote the FIRM
AND FLATTEN YOUR ABS e Book. It took me about 3 months. I guess one of my
main motivations for writing it was because there is so much bad information
and so many bad abdominal machines and devices out there…
TV: I noticed you don’t recommend ANY sit ups in your course. Why is that?
That’s correct. After studying many greats like Vladimir Janda, Diane Lee,
Paul Chek, Richardson and Jull, I discovered that the hip flexors (illiopsoas)
are frequently overworked and that can lead to muscle imbalances and low
back pain. So I said, why continue aggravating the problem with sit ups? In
my e book this is a topic I cover in detail.
TV: So why are sit ups still so popular and why are they still used as a
standard exercise in fitness testing and for sports or military
conditioning? Is there ever any reason that anyone would want to do sit ups
or in your opinion is that an exercise you should NEVER do?
DG: People are hard to change, Tom. But once you learn what can happen from
overusing exercises like sit ups, you’d be doing yourself (and trainers
their clients) a disservice by continuing this practice. Many studies have
also shown the hip flexors are recruited to do most of the work, so sit ups
are not only ineffective but they can also strain your back. Now to be fair,
there are correct ways to do a sit up. One is to take the Law of Reciprocal
Inhibition into account. That means if one muscle is working, the other must
relax. So if you’re doing sit ups, you contract your hamstrings and glutes
by pushing your lower legs against someone’s hands, small dumbbells or over
a heavy weighted barbell. This will shut off the illiopsoas and your abs
will feel it in the morning because they are now doing more of the work.If I
prescribe sit ups, I simply have my clients do Janda sit ups. For the e
book, I left out sit ups completely because of the overuse and injury
potential situation.
TV: Are there any other ab exercises that are really common in the gym but
you wouldn’t recommend to your clients?
DG: Unfortunately, many of the abdominal exercise gadgets on the market are
ineffective and sometimes even unsafe. I would stay away from the Ab Roller
or Torso Track because these machines can create muscle imbalances. I'm also
not a fan of machine crunches because these machines - like all machines -
stabilize your body and isolate the rectus abdominis, which doesn't allow
for true functional movement. Let's see, what else? Russian twists on a
roman chair with a plate sound like a good way to ruin your lumbar spine.
Torso twists on a machine fall in that category too.
TV: Yeah, those rotary torso machines are always being used in every gym
I’ve ever been in. What about the ab machines you see on TV – ANY of them
any good?
DG: The infomercial ads on TV try to make the machines and devices seem new,
fun and easy. Everyone wants nice abs fast and easy. But nice abs do not
come in a machine! The first step is a not a machine, it’s a proper diet
based on the individual. I would say your E book Burn the Fat, Feed the
Muscle is one of the best on the shelves these days when it comes to
nutrition and the motivational techniques to stay on the plan.
TV: So what’s probably on everyone’s mind now is that if sit ups and most
machines are out, that must leave crunches as the exercise of choice right?
DG: Yes and No - crunches have become more popular because of the popularity
of ab rollers and crunch machines. But like sit ups, crunches are overused
and misused - frequently! Floor crunches also limit your range of motion
compared to using a Swiss ball.
TV: A lot of people wonder about those giant exercise balls – You call them
Swiss balls, some people call them stability balls - I noticed you included
quite a few ball exercises in your course. What’s so great about those
things?
DG: Simple…it places more demand on the neurological system and that makes
the abdominal workout more effective. According to some studies, the
recruitment of the abdominals was almost double when the subjects used the
Swiss ball. The oblique’s contribution was increased by over 4 times due to
the Swiss ball. You also get an extra 15 degrees range of motion doing
crunches on a Swiss ball compared to floor crunches. Plus, have you ever
done an advanced exercise on a Swiss ball? You sweat more and breathe more
heavily. Why, because your nervous system and entire body are working harder
to do all the stabilizing work. For example, the Prone Bridge exercise
forces the rest of your body to stabilize you so you don’t fall off the
ball. Think of it as a light switch turning on.
TV: So using a Swiss ball “flips the switch on your nervous system,” I’ve
never heard anyone put it that way before… Interesting. So what are a few of
your personal favorite exercises for developing a good-looking and strong
set of six pack abs?
DG:
Well, my system starts with good neurological programming of the core
muscles. Build the base and then add layers. Some of the exercises I
personally like are:
* Prone Ball Roll
* Lateral Ball Roll
* Prone Jackknife on swiss ball
* Swiss ball Side Flexion
* Forward Ball Roll
It’s easier to see them than to try and describe them, so if you want a
visual, you can see the pictures here On This Web Page. You can also see a
total of 42 exercises including about a dozen ball exercises in my e-book,
Flatten Your Abs and that includes multiple photos of each movement showing
start and finish positions.
TV: Alright, next subject: what’s the deal on training abs every day – you
hear different opinions on this all the time - are you supposed to work them
daily or not? And why?
DG: There are different opinions on this. Personally, I think they should
NOT be trained each day. There are situations where you could train muscle
groups on consecutive days, like when you work different sections of the
abs. I stand by the philosophy of lower abs first, obliques and then the
rectus abdominus. Why? Each takes a different degree of neurological
programming. But in general, I follow a less is more philosophy for abs. I
don’t want people getting over trained and injured. A good diet combined
with an effective exercise program designed for the individual is the key
for fat loss. Add in a good core exercise program such as Firm and Flatten
Your Abs and you have the recipe for success.
TV: Okay, here’s another burning question that’s on everyone’s mind: A lot
of people do abdominal exercises every day because they think that will burn
the fat of the stomach. You and I know that doesn’t work. For the record,
would you explain exactly why ab exercises don’t burn fat off your abs?
DG: For one thing, fat is stored all over your body and the distribution of
fat stores is mainly genetic. Men tend to store body fat in their mid
section first. Women have a hard time losing the hip and leg weight because
of child-bearing genetic code. Second, and most important, abdominals come
from low body fat and low body fat comes from good nutrition, not specific
exercises. I really believe that you are what you eat. If you are "dirty" on
the inside, you will be “dirty” on the outside.
TV: Ok, let’s talk about core training now. A lot of people have heard of
core training because it has now filtered into the mainstream, with best
selling books, videos and exercise classes at health clubs and so on.
For the people who still don’t know what core training is could you give a
simple explanation?
DG: Training the core is a very important issue for all people of all ages.
There are two different muscular systems at work when dealing with core
conditioning. They are referred to as the inner unit, which consists of the
transverse abdominis, diaphragm, multifidus and pelvic floor these are deep
abdominal muscles and are important to core stability and function. Then
there are the outer unit muscles, which are all the prime movers of our
skeleton system. You must get the inner unit working well before you embark
on a hard core conditioning program.When conditioning your core, think of
yourself as a big top spinning with everything emanating from the middle
(core) out. If you wobble in the middle, you will, in theory, become off
balance and fall over faster. This sets yourself up for decreased
performance and increased injury potential. Show me a weak core and I will
show you many orthopedic injuries. Remember, getting injured should never be
part of an exercise program. To prevent injury, develop a base and
concentrate on building a functional inner unit. Protecting the spine is
high on the hierarchy of survival. To protect the spine and its important
function, we must understand what makes the inner and outer unit muscles
work. Working the inner unit muscles simply leads to better core
control.Your ability to respond to situations in everyday life from bending
down to get your keys you dropped on the ground to putting your baby in his
or her crib will be greatly enhanced when you have trained this system
correctly. An important point I’d like to make is that most people do not
get a good evaluation before starting a core training program. People just
jump right into a core conditioning class or advanced movements they see in
a magazine and this leads to many orthopedic injuries. I’m not saying they
need a PhD in functional anatomy, but they should know what type, how much
and how long they should do each and every exercise.
TV: You talk about functional training and functional movement in your
program – what’s that all about?
DG: Functional training is popular today as it well should be. It really
revolves around integrated, multi-dimensional movements that sometimes
change speed in all planes of motion. I don’t want to get into a deep
discussion about exercise kinesiology or biomechanics, so just think of
everyday life: How many leg extensions or leg curls do you perform in
everyday life as compared to squats? Squatting down is a natural, everyday
movement. In other words, it’s “functional.” I strongly suggest avoiding the
overuse of machines and starting to design your training in a functional
manner.
TV: You also mention the word “integration” frequently through out your
book, what do you mean by that?
DG: This is connected to the functional training I was just talking about.
Like I said before, it means we do not condition or train by isolating
muscles. We bring together all the muscles of the body to work as a unit –
that’s integration. Try to do a bicep curl on a machine, then do a curl with
a single heavy dumbbell. You will notice right away that your entire body
must stabilize and work together for you to curl that dumbbell.There are
times you have to break this law, such as after knee surgery when you will
not squat until you’ve done some leg extensions with the physical therapist,
or in the case of bodybuilders who intentionally isolate, but those are the
exceptions not the rule.
TV: On your flatten your abs web page, you say that your program will
help prevent and even eliminate back pain. Why do you think so many people
have back pain, what does ab training have to do with it and how does your
course help eliminate back pain or help avoid getting it in the first place?
DG: Great questions. Most back pain comes from the inability to stabilize
the spine. We are designed to sit upright and move, not sit all day long.
Did you know that sitting acutely raises pressure between each spinal
segment? Each segment has stabilizer muscles (the multifidus). When we
perform our desk job or sit at computers your stabilizer muscles do not have
to work as hard, so they become weaker. Why would they work when that 300
dollar chair does it for them? Then we think we can go out and play 18 holes
of golf and POW the back goes out! Do this experiment: Sit on a Swiss ball
fitted for your height and you will notice a big difference in the way you
sit at your desk. You excite those spinal muscles to do their jobs. There
are plenty of exercises to help with this with in the e book. To get relief
from minor back pain or to prevent back pain in general you must work the
entire inner unit and core muscles.
TV: You were talking earlier about developing a base and adding layers. I
know that a lot of people start a strength training program to look and feel
better but their workouts actually cause injuries and back problems because
they use bad form or they pick exercises that are too advanced for their
level of fitness. In your program, I noticed you have the routines set up in
levels of difficulty – 7 levels actually – and you talk about the importance
of developing the right foundation with simple conditioning exercises for
the first few weeks, then gradually moving into the more challenging
movements. How do you know where to start and which exercises to choose and
which to avoid so that you don’t hurt yourself by doing something over your
head? I mean, I know you wouldn’t train one of your overweight clients on
their first workout the same way you train your pro boxers, right?
DG: There are some simple abdominal tests in the eBook that will give every
person a baseline to start. For as long as I’ve been doing this I have found
very few people – even good athletes - that pass the tests the first time.
Each person should start at the beginning. The question is how long do you
stay at each level. An athlete will advance faster due to a better
integrated nervous system. But everyone should start off slow!
TV: David, if there’s so much misleading and false information on abdominal
machines and fat reduction on TV and in the magazines these days, how do
they keep getting away with it and why don’t more people know about the
techniques you teach?
DG: Some people do know about the types of training I use, just not the
mainstream yet. Also many of the ads for ab training call for minimum work.
…Flat abs in 3 minutes a day is quite appealing to most couch potatoes, so
they keep buying it.
TV: I agree totally. I saw that they have “six second abs” now and people
are actually buying this stuff. Ok, one last question. I know your eBook has
dozens of ab training and fat loss tips, and you’ll probably say, “Just buy
the book,” but would you indulge us and tell us three of your most important
secrets for getting firm and flat abdominals?
DG: Sure… ONE, Get a proper evaluation. I would suggest looking up a CHEK
practitioner in your area. There are many things that can help you with rock
hard abs. But without knowing your metabolic type, stress levels, food
intolerance, eating proper organic foods to avoid pesticides, chemicals and
so on, you could go round and round and never get those abs. In other words,
fix your insides so you outsides look great! TWO, do not stop learning -
continue educating yourself. Most plans are doomed from the start because
people tend to want the quick fix so they fall for gimmicks that with a
little education they would know better.THREE, follow the exercises with
proper form. Do not just go through the motions to get the reps done.
TV: This has been great David, definitely very enlightening and again, I
really appreciate your time, thank you. If someone wants to contact you or
if someone wants to order a copy of your e-book where can they find it?
DG: Well Tom, thank you and thanks for your great web sites and information.
You’re a great person to work with and I salute your commitment to natural
fitness and health. I can be reached at my website and you can also get the
full information about the FIRM AND FLATTEN YOUR ABS program there as well.
The site is located at: Flatten
Your Abs
TV: Thanks again David, It’s been a pleasure.
Click here to visit David Grisaffi’s
Flatten Your Abs Website
About the authors:
David Grisaffi majored in
physical education and holds multiple certifications including 3 from the
prestigious CHEK Institute: Level II high Performance Exercise Kinesiologist,
Golf Biomechanic, and health and lifestyle counselor. He's also certified by
the ISSA as a personal trainer and specialist in performance nutrition.
David has been a high school wrestling and baseball coach and is currently
an independent trainer and strength coach. He has been sought after by some
of the top athletes in professional sports including world champion boxer
Greg Haugen and professional golfer Michael Putnam. David’s ebook, Firm And
Flatten Your Abs is an online best seller which teaches you how develop “six
pack abs" while improving strength, function and athletic power at the same
time. Find out more at www.FlattenYourAbs.net
Tom Venuto is a lifetime natural bodybuilder, an NSCA-certified personal
trainer (CPT) and a certified strength & conditioning specialist (CSCS). Tom
is the author of the #1 best-selling e-book, "Burn the Fat, Feed The
Muscle,” which teaches you how to get lean without drugs or supplements
using the secrets of the world's best bodybuilders and fitness models. Learn
how to get rid of stubborn body fat and increase your metabolism by
visiting: www.BurnTheFatDiet.com
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